Welcome to Episode 14 of the Tantra for Gay Men Podcast, hosted by Jason and Ingo Tantra. In this insightful episode, we dive deep into the relevance and significance of Tantra for gay men in 2024. We explore how the evolution of LGBTQ+ rights over the past 70 years has paved the way for new spiritual practices and how Tantra, as a holistic approach, can help gay men connect with their true selves, express their sexual energy, and create deeper, more meaningful connections.

We discuss the historical challenges faced by the gay community, the role of sexuality in personal and spiritual growth, and why Tantra is the perfect practice for those seeking more than just physical intimacy. Whether you’re new to Tantra or have been practicing for years, this episode offers valuable insights into how Tantra can help you navigate and enrich your life in 2024.

We also introduce our upcoming Tantra retreat, “Healing and Surrender,” happening from November 30th to December 6th, 2024, in the sacred landscape of Glastonbury, UK. This retreat will focus on using Tantra to heal and empower, offering a profound opportunity for personal transformation.

If you’re ready to explore deeper levels of intimacy, spirituality, and connection, this episode is for you. Don’t forget to listen all the way through for details about our retreat and upcoming episodes.

**Learn More & Join Our Community:**

🌐 Visit our website: [TantraForGayMen.com](tantra4gaymen.com)  

📅 Join our Healing and Surrender Retreat: https://www.tantra4gaymen.com/event/healing-surrender-uk/ 

🎧 Listen to the next episode: “How Sexual Abuse Impacts Sex and How Tantra Can Help”

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#Tantra #GayMen #Spirituality #LGBTQ #PersonalGrowth #TantraForGayMen #Podcast #2024 #Sexuality #Intimacy #Healing #Surrender #Glastonbury

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the Tantra for Gay Men podcast hosted by Jason and Ingo Tantra. Here we’re exploring spirituality and personal growth through the practice of Tantra, the body, energy and sex. Hello there, I’m Jason Tantra and welcome to episode 14 of the Tantra for Gay Men podcast.

This one’s a really exciting topic. Ingo and I are talking about why Tantra in 2024 for gay men and we’re discussing and exploring this in a way that hopefully it really speaks to you about, you know, why you in 2024 and why would Tantra be relevant to you? How could it help you? Yeah, really exciting podcast and really listen through because we kind of go through about three or different ideas or arguments that we discuss and explore and at the end we talk all about a really special Tantra retreat that we’re leading in the sacred landscape of Glastonbury later in 2024. Listen all the way through and I hope you enjoy.

Take care now, bye-bye. Hello beautiful Ingo. Hello Jason.

Here we are again. Next episode of our podcast. We are in the Yoni room in Glastonbury.

Yes, in the goddess temple, very esoteric, very beautiful place and today in our podcast we are dealing with the question, we are looking at why Tantra for gay men in 2024? Why is it relevant? It’s 2024 isn’t it? Is it 2024? It is. Summer 2024. Thank you.

I wonder sometimes what planet we’re on sometimes. So yeah, you know, one of the questions I have is why Tantra for gay men or men who love men in 2024? Why not 100 years ago? Why not 50 years ago? Why is it important for us and our community right now, right at this very time? And I’ve got some ideas and… Would you like to start? Thankfully you said. I’ve got a thousand ideas as well.

Okay, good. Maybe you start with one of your key ideas and then I will bring one. Well, one of the ideas that I had was around the development for gay men over the last 70 years.

So for example, my understanding is in the 50s and 60s being gay was one, illegal and criminalized. And also for us as a community, we kind of lived sub beneath all of the heterosexuality. Like being heterosexual was the only option.

And there were also sex studies done in the 50s and 60s. Was it Kinsey? For example, yeah. And they thankfully towards the end of the 60s, correct me here, but they then found that actually being gay or having same sex attraction was not actually an illness anymore.

It was just some people are gay. That’s kind of the conclusion that they got to. So for me, when I look at the landscape for men who love men, for gay men, for us in the 70s, it was, you know, well, in the 50s and 60s, it was illegal.

In the 70s, it was decriminalized slightly. Well, it took until something like 1992 until the last barriers were removed, like in Germany, at least, I think. Yeah, something like that.

I think in the UK, it was in the 70s. And I think in the USA, without pulling up Google, late 70s. But we were still, you know, living in a marginalized society and things like nightclubs were hidden, you know, barricades.

We were still hiding who we were. And then as we go into the 80s, the AIDS crisis. And then, you know, we were starting to be recognized, starting to get some, we’re starting to be seen in the main consciousness.

Then, you know, we’re dealing with the AIDS crisis. And then I feel in the 90s, it was very much about equality, going into the noughties, you know, gay marriage. I think we started with civil partnerships, didn’t we? Sort of like 2010.

Yeah. And so what my point is, is that over the last 50, 60 years, 70 years, as a gay man, we’ve gone through being accepted in wide, you know, in mainstream society. Like right now, if we’re in the street, I’ve got no qualms in holding your hand.

I don’t care that people know that we’re gay. And I’m really not expecting any homophobia. I’m not expecting any sarcastic comments.

And I feel right now, whilst there’s a lot of troubles in the world, actually, I feel kind of quite equal in society right now. So then there’s the question for me, well, where next for gay men? And this is where I come back to the idea that Tantra of its time is really right. Because in an aside to this argument, I also want to talk about the role of religion.

I don’t feel in 2025, that men who love men have a spiritual framework or a religious framework where they feel accepted. I mean, looking at the workshops we’ve done in the USA. Oh God, especially, yes, especially in the USA, people coming from all kinds of backgrounds, from Baptist to Mormon to all kinds of very religious backgrounds.

And even the younger people in their 20s or 30s and having gone through repression, like extreme repression, and then having to, trying to find a framework to work through that basically. Is that what you mean? Yeah. And also for me, religion has just done an amazing job of telling everybody that they’re wrong.

So every gay man that they’re sexual, I mean, look at the toxicity and the harm caused by conversion therapy. Yes. And we’ve had people, you know, in our workshops, haven’t we, where they’ve, you know, been just fucking traumatizing.

Yeah. It’s the only way I can describe it. So here we are in 2024.

And I think the point in that is that most of these, you know, these religious movements, religious education, religious upbringing, basically suppresses our unique expression of sexuality. Yes. And when people go through that, it’s like almost they lost part of their soul, lost part of their, an expression that should actually be uniquely theirs, and that’s part of their humanity.

And they’re somehow, you know, they’re somehow stunted in many ways. And for me, the work that we do with that, and that’s maybe the first thing why Tantra is so much of this time in this context is about re-empowering and reclaiming our own individual sexual expression as our own, and not as something that has way, way, way too often been appropriated by religious institutions, political institutions. So we’re trying to tell us what is, you know, what is right or wrong, and how we are meant to express this or not, you know? Yes, completely, completely.

And so for me, the reason why I think Tantra right now is most mainstream religion has rejected us, or made us wrong, or tried to convert us. Actually, I’m not sure of any religion. Well, some are like changing, but I don’t know of any religion that welcomes men who love men, gay men, just as they are, and it’s like, this is, you’re right as you are.

At some level, they’ve made us wrong in so many different ways. Yeah, I mean, I think from what I see, especially some of, also some of our US people who have studied with us, there are now certainly pockets within, you know, mainstream Christianity, especially in the US, that are completely, you know, with lots and lots of activist work, with lots and lots of, lots of work these people have done to anchor our place as gay people within those religions. And I think this is bearing fruit.

However, at the same time, I personally think that the unique thing that Tantra can contribute is that in our work, we are trying to go back to the source where sexuality and our sexual expression can emerge from what we are in our unconditioned state. And who am I with my unique sexual expression? And I personally believe that only once I have found that, I can then see if I want to reintegrate that, for example, with my religious community or something like that, which some people who have studied with us have basically gone through this process. They basically said, okay, it’s not just about me as a gay man being appreciated in my religious community, which, you know, increasingly there are pockets of that, but it’s much more.

It’s about me finding my unique expression of sexuality and then seeing how can I bring that. And I love everything you’re saying. And in developing that, one of the points I want to make is about the role of spirituality, because I believe what we’ve been through in the last 70 years in the development for gay men, I believe that has been a spiritual path because all of that, all of that that we’ve been through has taken us back to a place where we’re trying to be the truth of who we are.

So if you imagine before anybody made any judgments about anybody and made anybody wrong, you know, I know in my body that I’m a gay man, I’m attracted to other men. And yet I was brought up in a society, you know, I came out in the late 80s, where still in the southwest of England, it was still seen as something quite, it was a biggie, you know, there was a big coming out thing and being accepted. It certainly wasn’t like it was today.

There was certainly a huge, you know, acceptance and it was a big event that somebody had come out. But from a spiritual perspective, that was still the process of living in truth. When I talk about Tantra as love and truth, actually, I think part of stepping up in the world and saying, listen, I’m a gay man, I’m attracted to other men is part of living in alignment with truth.

So I think that, you know, gay men are predisposed to a spiritual journey in living their truth, in coming out, in having a relationship, in getting married. I know that when we got married, do you remember that baby? You know, there was still a bit of me that was a little bit apprehensive, because it was a massive event with 160 people. And I was quite a lot terrified that it was a really big statement to say, I’m going to marry the absolute love of my life, which was beautiful.

And I would do that again, 100 times, a million times over. But, you know, my point is, what we’ve been through in the last 17 years is a spiritual journey. But actually, that’s still not enough.

Like, for me, what we’ve wanted is equality. And I think we’ve, you know, we could argue that, but generally, we’re kind of in that ballpark. And my question is, well, what’s next? And this is why I think Tantra is of its time today.

And I’m going to give you a chance to respond to that, because I’ve got two avenues I want to go down with that. So what do you think? Do you agree? Any response? I thought you were in the middle of an argument. No, no.

So I believe that where we are today in 2024, we as gay men have been on a spiritual journey for the last 70 years around being the truth of who we are, and asking for equality, not asking, demanding equality. And I think we’re at the potential of a plateau. And what we’ve also said is that religion has marginalized us, and religion is really not.

So it’s like, well, where is the spiritual path for gay men? And I want to make a pitch for Tantra in a second. Okay. Yeah.

Let me just say a few things about that. So we’re going to make a pitch for Tantra later, but for the moment, let’s just have this kind of working definition of the spiritual path, which is to uncover your true nature. Uncover who you truly are beyond what society puts onto you, your upbringing, your traumas, your preferences, you name it.

So if the path is uncovering who you truly are, then Tantra, the unique thing in there is to also uncover your sexual expression and the way how you weave your sexual expression and your sexuality and your capability of being intimate with others, how you weave that into your life. And here’s my point. I think we have reached equality in, well, at least in certain countries.

There are many, many countries in this world where this isn’t, and the battle continues for that. But let’s say even in places where we have reached a certain equality, let’s say certain European countries, I would say we have reached equality, but I do not think we have reached freedom in really expressing ourselves sexually. And I want to talk about that later because I feel the way it is allowed to express yourself sexually is very, very, there are certain ways, and anything that is beyond that is… Well, and I think also the other thing we’ve been dealing with, I think, in the last few years is relationship structures.

I think when gay marriage came out, we all thought we were meant to live a heteronormative model of two people being together. Exactly, that’s what I wanted to say. The question is, are we really free in bringing our sexual expression into our relationships, our relationship with society in the way that is really us? And I would say no, because there are certain ways in which it is accepted.

Traditional couples’ relationship, maybe grinder certain areas where we can have sex in the dark room, but how do we bring real intimacy to others that are not our immediate partner, something like that? That’s a big question for me, for example. Yes, I wanted to talk about sex because I think, again, as gay men, we have done a really good job over the last 70 years of exploring every possible sexual action that we could possibly do to each other, apart from intimacy and spirituality, which I’ll make a pitch for that in a moment. But it’s like we have, in our sexual expression, we’ve done everything, and we’ve developed subcultures out of that.

And I love all of that. And that, for me, is all an expression of our natural life force energy, our natural state of how we want to be, being expressed in all these different forms and creativity. Yes, okay.

Where are you going with that? Well, what I’m wanting to say is that I think, for us as gay men, we’ve used sex as a way to express ourselves, as a way to find out who we are, because being gay is about sex. Yes. Primarily, it’s from root chakra.

It’s about how we want to express our sexual energy, who we want to fuck, who we want to be fucked by, how we want different ways to explore sexual energy. And I think we also, as gay men, use sex as gateways and portals into intimacy, into connection, into reaching out. If people go to a new city, traveling with work or traveling, it’s quite likely that they would use sex as the vehicle to have the experience of the place that they are visiting, as well as touring around the museums and the ancient ruins.

But actually, sex is a part of our identity. But I think we’ve a danger of reaching a ceiling level. And this is where tantra can take it onto its next stage.

It can elevate it further. And before I go into that, I just wanted to check in with you. That’s where I was going, that I think as gay men, we’ve used sex as a way to express ourselves.

But the reason I come back to, again, why tantra 2024 is because there’s more to go at in terms of the development of gay men, and in terms of development of our sex as a gateway into our spirituality. Yes. I’m completely on the same page as you.

Good. Good. That’s a win.

Anything you want to say to all of that? No, continue for a moment. I’m, yes, I will say something in a minute. So my next point then is, okay, if we’re then developing that, so if we’ve done a really good job of mostly having or much greater equality, we’ve expressed and looked at ourselves sexually, that still isn’t the end of the spiritual journey in terms of, well, what’s next? And so I think this is where tantra teaches people how to use sexual energy to broaden their experience of themselves, or to uncover, or in other words, to realize the wider truth of who you are, the wider sense of you.

What I mean by this is, we are all pretty conditioned to live in our boxes in our life. We have a certain job, we have a certain apartment, we go certain places, we know certain people, we stay in a certain place. And what can happen is that we become like a caricature of ourselves, living our identity of who we are, and we just keep going round on that hamster wheel.

What you and I know, Ingo, is that when people arrive at the door of tantra, actually quite often they’re looking for something. There’s a dissatisfaction, they’re looking for something, they know there’s something more, they’ve done all the sex that they can, they’ve done all the drugs that they can, they’ve been to all of the parties that they can, they’ve been to all the gay pride marches, we’ve done all of that stuff, and yet there’s still a deeper sense of, yes, but there’s still more to do. And I think this is where, then, tantra shows people as a spiritual practice, and there are a multitude of different spiritual practices, but what I love, and again this reinforces my part about tantra for gay men in 2024, is because we use sex and sexual energy as the life force, as the vehicle to propel you into your spiritual journey.

I think you are onto something that I wanted to say before. So, okay, if we go back to us expressing ourselves in really multiple ways, let’s say we’ve had every conceivable sex party and BDSM party, and you can have your grinder shack, you can go to orgies, but if you look at what it is that really would, for me personally at least, drive me to be in there, it’s these almost transcendental moments, where, for example, let’s say at a good sex party, all of a sudden it’s like, wow, I didn’t even know that intimacy, that kind of connection could exist on that level. But it’s pretty random to show up, because you never know how it’s gonna go and what level those people are gonna be on, but when it shows up, it’s like a whole different level of intimacy.

So, for me, that is unlike anything else, that level of connection, that’s way beyond the physical act of sex. And when I go through that, when I experience that, and this is the point, I’m like, wow, there is a real issue with the expression of intimacy, of connection in my life. Why can I only have this in a kind of, let’s say, in a BDSM club or something like that? Why can’t I have that? Why can’t I live in that kind of intimate expression in any relationship throughout my daily life? And that is, you know, with or without having sex with someone.

And these are real, much bigger questions, and I think we are not free in that quite yet. I think we might be doing a disservice, because we might be lumping several things all together. And I think that there are different parts of the Tantra journey.

And I’m just trying to think what model we’ve used to describe them before. So, for example, I think Tantra for people knocking at the door as an introduction, I think there’s stuff to be doing there. But somebody who’s been practicing for three, five years, actually what they’re looking for in Tantra is completely different.

Yes, but can’t we, you know, I’m not sure if we can agree on this. One of the biggest things coming up in the beginning, at the beginning of the Tantra journey is this question of intimacy. Completely.

Yeah. I think that’s one of the things that people are dealing with. Yeah.

Is how do I allow people, like one of the common things people deal with early in Tantra is how could I share my sexual energy with somebody that I don’t find attractive? Yes. Because we live in a society where I’m only going to share my sexual energy with you if I find you visually stimulating and attractive. And that for me is a place of unhappiness because what you’re doing is just living in a world judging visually.

And I know that some of the most amazing experiences I’ve had have been the most amazing energetic experiences, the most expanded experiences, have been with people that I wouldn’t traditionally fancy. And there’s, you know, one of the things you learn early in the Tantra journey is the difference between visually attractive and what I would call energetically attractive. Yes.

And I think the question is even bigger. I think the question is more how can I share the intimacy that I have to share? Yes. Whatever degree of erotic, cuddly, sensual, maybe sexually, there’s this whole spectrum that can be in there.

It can be from a little cuddle with someone to full on sex with someone. How can I share this energy with someone who comes along in a way that feels exactly right and that is not either nothing or full on fucking or something like that? You know, we are in these extremes. Finding the degree, the range.

How can I find this kind of degree? How can I, for example, you know, I’m not into sex with everyone I meet, but how could I meet someone and share intimacy to the degree that it feels right? And that might just be something sensual. And I think there are almost no contexts in our gay life for that. I want to talk about the liberation of your judgments of where your sexual energy goes, because I think that’s another dimension of what we’re talking about.

So you’re right when you meet people, rather than just like, yes, no, shut us down. Fuck. No, fuck.

Actually, what we introduce is a range. And we say that there’s something you could share with everybody, whether that’s a cuddle, whether that’s eye gazing, whether that’s, you know, gentle cock stroking, holding each other all the way up to more rampant things. But I also think there’s another dimension to this as part of a spiritual journey is where you liberate yourself from the judgments you have of where you apply your sexual energy.

So I know and you know, for example, you know, if I’m receiving a multi orgasmic tantric massage, and I’m in a very expanded state, most people, most men that buy an erotic massage, buy an erotic massage based on how the person looks, but you’re let down on a table and your eyes are closed for for most of the time, if not all of the time of your one at one hour, one and a half hours. So why does it matter what the person looks like? Surely it’s about how the person’s skill is, you know, how they touch you, how good they are at the different techniques, and it’s got nothing to do with how you look. What I mean by this then is as part of a, it feels like a spiritual threshold, when you realize that you can be in your, this is it, how you can be in your sexual energy, regardless of who you’re with, and what that looks like.

And that is one of the key liberations of tantra. Like it’s like a claiming of a freedom. Because once you can, I guess, take responsibility for your sexual energy, take responsibility, and not need to make a judgment about how you’re in it, depending on who’s around you.

There’s there’s a freedom in that I don’t know if that’s making sense.

I think we are trying to almost Say the same thing I just okay, but but from slightly different angles, I just had this image of You know, let’s say a typical Gay hookup culture. We’ve got a bar in which we drink. Yeah Maybe that bar has a dark room um, so I would I would look out for people.

I want to go full on with yeah. Yes. No, yes No, and and then then you know, then let’s see if there is a hookup and then um maybe go home and fuck or go into the dark room and and fuck and so for me My point is And this is why I feel that that tantra Before all the spiritual stuff like on a very basic level that’s why I think why tantra on a very basic level is so relevant for that culture because in this culture almost I feel I I always felt that that’s one reason why I You know came to tantra first is that in this culture everything in between was missing.

Yeah, so I experienced this mainstream culture in a way that I either you know, I either don’t hook up maybe chat with someone Or If you know, we really like each other then, uh, it could be, you know Go full on But all the expression in between that Where are the where are the cuddles? Where are is the friendship that can be slightly sensual, but that does not necessarily have to be sexual where is Uh the exploration of how far we really really want to go or not Yes, it was like on or off in a certain kind of way and that is certainly not helped by let’s say alcohol and things like that and that was something that I really really missed this kind of spectrum of like sensual intimate erotic expression in in in Uh Connections that are each unique like friendships some of which are you know temporary or not? And what I missed was a context for that like a group that is being set up Yes for me an ideal an ideal kind of uh Let’s say gay party or gay gay pub Maybe you know pubbing and clubbing. Uh a context Would allow for all these Things in between would allow for these kinds of of deeper connections And that’s what tantra does on a kind of what I call community level. Yeah, that’s what I’m which is the first level that comes before we go into the spiritual and that is and the reason why i’m What i’m bringing this now is I personally think that this level is super relevant for our time right now Because I still feel despite uh Us, you know having reached a certain amount of equality and despite us Being now able to go to all kinds of extreme parties however, we want and these contexts exist Where are those contexts that explore? Everything that is between we are not connecting.

We are connecting a little bit and full-on sex all of that That thing and you know all of that spectrum and and that is that has been tantra for me and that has been hugely liberating for the way in which I you know in which I I relate to to to to to gay people, you know to my fellow gay brothers in general Well, let’s talk about the tantra love festival. Exactly. It’s now in its 13th year And we host that in glastonbury uk every august.

We’ve got it in a couple of weeks, which is probably why we’re talking about it I mean for me We’ve attracted a you know, 100 130 men That whilst they’re coming to practice tantra Uh, I would say half of the reason that they’re there Is you know for us the festival is all about love And it’s all about creating a wonderland of being able to be love hug You know all of the things you talk about all the different grades of levels of intimacy And love and it’s more than friendship It’s like a brotherhood because friends is like so far, but these are like intimate friends These are friends you would cuddle with so I agree with you. I think that um That is one of the base Ways tantra creates I guess like a subculture. Yes As I think what you’re saying we we have through what we do have created a subculture Where it’s okay to be you it’s okay to cuddle It’s okay to integrate sexual sharing within friendships within love within lovers and boyfriends Whatever labels we put on I think what we’re doing is we are Helping people explore themselves without labels.

I think this is why we struggle Yes, and and this is exactly what I mean in uh, you know in mainstream gay let’s say, you know again the the Pub with the dark room. Yeah, it’s it’s in a way For me, it’s all very very prescribed. It’s like you look out for someone.

Oh, yeah, you fancy them, you know then you if you’re very lucky you hook up and You take them maybe into the dark room and then literally you can’t see anything The threshold into the dark room changes the energy, but it’s prescribed because once you’re in the dark room What you do is, you know a certain Very narrow spectrum of things like you basically fuck you basically wank each other off or whatever you do so how about Yeah, and this is actually The the mind-blowing thing which was mind-blowing for me when I came first to tantra groups and as you say this is expressed at how we do the festival for example is how about if we had a space where I can I can Connect to this person we can actually Chat about What it is that we would like to do with each other. Yes, and by the way, we have learned the skills to express ourselves verbally to express What we want what we don’t want our yeses our nose I’m mentioning this because this is also one one part of the tantric education and and then we we We both know exactly what we can do for each other and and where this could go and We can we can play in a way that is not so described prescribed and i’ve had as you say, um, especially With people I would not normally fancy in a kind of standard way. I’ve had really mind-blowing Encounters in this context and that’s again the the I would say the community uh the community aspect of tantra, but The the point is it needs to be learned.

You need to learn how to communicate these things and how to operate How to operate how to know your boundaries how to recognize another person’s boundaries How to be in consent Yes, you know what I mean? Yes We’re doing a huge disservice If we don’t talk about the spiritual Relationship with the other In the relationship of tantra. I love what we’ve said so far And I think that’s a solid argument around tantra creates like-minded communities Where we are redeveloping the the roles and labels of how we connect and share intimacy. That’s it Yes, love it.

That’s exactly and that’s of our time. Yes, because I think Expressing intimacy in our time for many. Yes political reasons and societal.

Yes has become Society has become more isolating in many ways. Yes. So this is almost political work to bring Counterculture.

Yeah to bring intimacy back into into relationships Outside of just your partner. I agree And there’s a whole other thing and i’m the reason i’m wanting to spend some time in this next bit Is because i’ve been working on um the Diploma. Yeah in tantra that we’re going to do healing and surrender I’m going to talk about that in a little bit in 30th of november to friday the 6th of december the The more I want to I want to return to the mystical aspect of tantra Because our arses for me are gateways and portals Into other dimensions other states other ways to experience ourselves Beyond how we do in a day to day And we know ingo when we you know, I guess what i’m saying is the person that’s been in tantra two three four five years You know when you talk about tantric sex I think tantric sex doesn’t even begin to describe the depths of The what the practice of tantric sex has Because for me the the way i’ve been able to describe it up to now It’s like traveling in a spaceship for me You know tantric sex say you’re doing it with one other person.

It’s like you create this space capsule And through the techniques through the practices Through all the psychology like all of the issues that you’ve worked through We haven’t even talked about that yet in this about how tantra helps all of that. We might get time um, but for me then beyond that There are these most profound most subtle most divine most sacred most spiritual most holy Experiences and they’re so subtle and precious That I don’t know any other way in my life that i’ve experienced those things other than the practice of tantra Yes, and The Important thing in here is that all of All of these experiences are genuinely our own When we practice tantra they we we they they come from within ourselves we can so to speak You know if you if you well You say within ourselves. I think they come from our inner landscape What i’m saying is we can I I want to I want to just bring this arc back to this kind of Reclaiming what we have lost through religious indoctrination.

Yes is that we can basically um Through these things we can open ourselves up to a direct experience Of the luminous. Yes god the beyond whatever you want to call it without Without having this dogma And yes, yes yes, and in that sense, I feel it’s Reclaiming of of of our own power and and that also Yes title of the podcast Is of our time that that we need to reclaim this and the other thing is for me. It’s embodied Yes, like the everything you’re going to experience and perceive is through your body And that for me is of its time And the other thing I would say is the reason why it’s relevant to gay men Is because it’s sex You know, it comes back to that natural life force energy our primal sexual energy It’s almost like learning to ride the bucking bronco and and learning to to put a saddle on it and and and and Like tame it to enable it to show you And open up to you All of the divine possibilities like we knowing go Through our 19 years of teaching people have had, you know We’ve had so many people that have had really profound spiritual experiences, you know We’ve had one person Lying on our workshop despite scare people listening lying on our workshop floor in a retreat In a constant state of orgasm for 12 hours And feeling like they were with the divine in in every moment of that You know and and like also recently in the summer, you know when we did our stargate people had People went beyond their understanding of orgasm into something universal into something Um collective and something deeply profound and spiritual that people struggle to put the words to and the thing I love about all of this is I don’t think we should try to Explain it categorize it label it define it.

I think what you and I can do is be servants to these experiences and enable us like guardian angels of Creating the containers for those experiences to happen that Brings me that that brings from up for me like one one term that I want to introduce basically um which is You know bringing it back to the title of our podcast why in this time I think This time politically Uh, you know where the world is going there is just the huge Potential to fall into either despair or numbness or depression or something like that and these tantric experiences these experiences beyond Ourselves these these numinous experiences What they bring and this is the term for me at least It’s the term of Re-enchantment. Yes, they they re-enchant the world. I’m When I practice this and when I have these experiences Uh what it infuses Me with is the sense that Despite all the crap and the despair and and and the wars going on in this world There is the potential for love and connection to be felt within myself and this Re-enchants the world it shows A certain amount of it shows goodness.

It shows enchantment and That for me is something You know Why tantra is contemporary because this is more needed, you know in in these crazy times It’s money. It’s more needed than anything for me at least. Yeah.

Yeah I love what you’re saying there about people could Just suffer if they just read their news apps all the time exactly You can doom scroll you exactly or you can or you can put yourself into this intention of I wanna experience the the numinous and I want to re-enchant my world through this and that somehow it doesn’t make you immune but It it helps for me to deal with the craziness of the world a lot a lot better I will I think the other thing that tantra does lastly as we move into our little summary closing for me, I think the other thing is is that People become very identified with what they hear on their news channel You know at this time of recording there’s you know, the upcoming u.s election there’s all of the politics that are happening as you said, there’s all the tensions In the war in the world and there’s a race of fascism. There’s all of these Absolutely horrible things and we could If we’re not careful get lost in all of that And for me, I wonder whether the trick is That you could still have an eye on that and you could still be aware of that and you could still Feel that that’s going on but what’s central? To you is where you are and the experience of you in what you’re doing in your life And I think tantra has the most embodied way Of bringing you back to you back to the here and now and you know again reinforcing. This is why I think Tantra is like a sledgehammer of pressing a major reset button on you To bring you back to you and then once you’ve come back to you you can then Kind of Have an eye on what’s happening in the rest of the world actually connect to the world It’s not it’s not being reclusive.

It’s actually the opposite it’s being able to connect to all of the craziness of the world, but Without falling into the despair. Yeah. Yeah Ingo, thank you Listen as we close we want to talk about um A beautiful retreat that we’re leading Friday the 30th of november No, sorry saturday the 30th of november.

Sorry 24 30th of november 2024 to the 6th of december friday the 6th of december And this is a really profound really special tantra retreat It’s called healing and surrender And I think we’re in that week. We’re looking at both. We’re really looking at using anal massage and using the anus arse As a portal into the healing of you and you know, we’ve done this week many times And it has always been like profound very transformational for people.

Yeah completely uh 30th of november to the 6th of december 2024 in glastonbury uk for those Uh, if you’re coming from the u.s easy to reach from london heathrow airport In the sacred landscape of glastonbury, I would say and the other part of the week I wanted to talk about was around surrender and holding power And I love the way that we’ve interpreted that in a contemporary way that gay men would interpret surrender and power without any spoilers really um if you’re up for an exciting adventure And you kind of have a little bit of a hedonistic nature Or you’re like, oh my god, I’m so stuck in my life. I need to do something different This is the place to come to play with those polarities of really power and surrender and really both. Yeah Yeah, we would love you to come and join us.

We’ve got about um, we’ve got I think just over halfway booked Yes, got a nice group forming. It’s uh already. Um Promising to be quite a profound group with people who have booked already.

We would love you to come and join us Ingo, thank you so much for today. Do you know I started this podcast thinking? Oh, I don’t know that we’ve got a lot to say on the topic about why tantra for gay men in 2024 interesting where it goes and i’m sure we’ve got so much more but thank you for spending this time with me, baby Love you, my darling. I love you.

I was gonna just say that to you. I love you too, sweetheart Okay, see you next time see you next time Bye, dear listener. Bye So I really hoped you enjoyed today’s podcast.

It was a real fascinating discussion for me and ingo We really enjoyed sharing and talking about that. Um if you’re interested in the um diploma in tantra healing and surrender module Saturday the 30th of november to friday Saturday as friday the 6th of december in glastonbury uk Have a look at the website tantraforgaymen.co.uk Or tantraforgaymen.com Um where you can see all of the details of that. We’d love to welcome you And we also look forward to seeing you in episode 15 Where we are talking about how sexual abuse? Can you know really damage and hinder the sex that you have? And as part of that how tantra can help so that’s coming up in episode 15 Lots of love to you.

Take care. See you next time. Bye You

 

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